Anycubic Photon Printer Owners 造訪社團 » STL

so... the fact that its printed in toxic resin that is still toxic even after cured and someone thought "yeah, I'd like to breath all my air through that"?

Evan Boone not all resins are toxic. There are a few biocompatible resins

Evan Boone how about Nextdent SG resin?

Zamir Kafati expensive af first of all. second ive seen people talking about using regular resin and risking the toxic parts anyways, so if you put this stl out there, people WILL be dumbasses and harm themselves with it. third, don't expect any hospitals to allow people to use equipment they provide themselves. they will not do it simply for liability reasons.

Evan Boone I mean, to be fair, if the choice is between someone literally dying, or breathing through a potentially toxic home-produced respirator part, I think most people would choose to risk it.

Now whether or not hospitals will actually use them i n fear of getting sued or something, that's another story, but I know damn well if my options were "die gasping for air or breathe through a potentially toxic homebrew 3D printed part", I'd risk the 3d print.

better than dying

Kyle Telechan you wont have a chance to risk the 3d print. you will be stuck in a hospital hooked into their machines which they wont let you touch.

Evan Boone I was kind of using it as an example. I'm not under the impression that I'd just print one of these and carry it around in case a doctor needed it. I was just saying most people would probably rather risk the part than simply die, if those were the two options they were given.

Kyle Telechan yes but what scenario would you have to be in to even get the chance to use it, even if you had it?

Regarding "better than dying": The military has field med kits including a tube you ram up the patient's nose to secure an airway. If your kit is damaged or you don't have any, you spit on it for lube. Of course, this is all while you're under the pr essure of battlefield conditions, but I digress. The point is, as rough and uncomfortable as it is, IT'S BETTER THAN DYING. Also, do not underestimate the 2d and 3rd order effects of these efforts. People will see this and wheels will start turning. It may not be these parts that brings maker efforts to light, but it's a step in the right direction. AND BETTER THAN DYING.

Evan Boone You are not getting my point at all. If these were somehow approved to use in an emergency situation, we'd probably print and donate these to hospitals who needed them.

I'm not saying I'd ever be in the position to benefit from my own print , just that the parts being potentially toxic isn't really an issue from a personal standpoint with most people when the difference is between potential toxins and certain death.

I was only using my personal feelings on the matter as an example to extrapolate what other typical people would (likely) feel about using 3D printed parts in emergency situations.

Not saying I think this will ever fly in the US, with medical malpractice and all that. They'd probably be forced to follow protocol and let someone die before they were allowed to use homebrew parts, honestly.

Jason Marjorie Gill yes but the public health system is not the military. they dont use the same slapped-together solutions because if they did, something has already gone terribly wrong. im all for getting things moving, but i do not think these thing s need to be out there for public download. if a hospital has a printer they can use with the right non-toxic resin, they are more than capable of doing this themselves. if anything we should be pushing for medical facilities to be equipped with 3d printers so when something like this becomes available, they dont need to rely on our failing government to dispense respirators, when they can make their own. it serves absolutely zero purpose for these to be in public hands though. itll just cause problems between staff and patients who think they know better.

Evan Boone This originated from multiple posts about prototyping pieces/ adapters for ventilators. We have about 5000 in the uk apparently. That number will soon be overwhelmed by the number of patients that need them. The material specs have not yet b een released that will be needed for hospital use. As soon as they are they will be publicised widely. Meanwhile try to think and find out what parts they are running short of close to you and post on this group https://www.facebook.com/groups/885372275225315/?ref=share

Kyle Telechan they will never get approved, at least not from freelance printers. the process of sourcing medical equipment would never allow for hospitals to get it from joe-nobody printing valves in his basement! you are right. they would almost defi nitely let people die before they will use parts from random strangers. idk why your personal feelings even enter the conversation. yes, the patient may feel like risking the toxins over dying, but the hospital will never even give them the choice, so your feelings on the matter are respectfully, irrelevant. the only way theyde probably take home-printed valves is if individuals undewent various inspections and certifications to ensure proper practices were being followed. its honestly how big pharma keeps away competition, but it also ensures the proper quality for equipment.

Evan Boone - Hospitals are using slapped-together solutions right now. They're putting out calls locally here in the Netherlands for fireworks protection glasses to use instead of... sorry, it's late, I forget the term, but as like, eye protection spla tter shields? You can drop them off locally at hospitals outside.

There's hospitals around the world also asking amateur sewists to make them masks out of tee shirt fabric, because while they are about 3x worse than actual masks, they're a lot better than nothing - which is the alternative they're facing.

Those are being used on the staff rather than the patients but if it came down to "Let this person die because they definitely will without this thing" or "Use this part that might technically be toxic but will keep them breathing today" they're gonna choose the latter. Things are getting real ugly out there in healthcare.

They take the Hippocratic oath, so they won't let you die if they could save you using this. People save lives sticking a broken pen into your chest so in some circumstances, these might be used.

Hospitals cannot accept parts for equipment or medication from an unauthorized outside vendor. They do not know what the material is, where it came from, and it is not sterile.

Jarrod Richards that’s not true. I live in upstate New York and hospitals are already running out of supplies and asking people to 3D print and sew the personal protective equipment that they need. The hospitals, doctors, and nurses are desperate for anything they can get.

Peter Teal it’s true unless the hospital specifically asks. There are extreme circumstances that will change SOP, but you need the medical director for the hospital to ?? that call before they can.

If your hospital hasn’t put out a request for it, they can’t accept it.

Jarrod Richards https://www.nbcnews.com/....../worldwide-hackathon......

Peter Teal I’ve seen this. In each of these cases the specific hospitals have ASKED for these.

Do you work in the medical field?

Jarrod Richards No. I don’t.

Peter Teal I spent several years working in a hospital and I’ve seen up close the red tape you need to go through. Between legal, Ned directors, and accounting going back and forth with how to move forward on a single item of an agenda, it’s a wonder anything gets done. It’s really the nurses who make med decisions on the fly, and the doctors that advise and set a course of Tx that really keep the whole thing running

Jarrod Richards I can believe that. I just have a problem with your original comment to which I replied. As evidenced by what we’re hearing in the local news reports, they can accept parts if they are desperate enough, even if they are unsure about the materials or if the parts are sterile.

Peter Teal exactly. I’m not disputing that these are trying times and front line people need all the help they can get.. but there are normal procedures that they follow until there is an exception. More than anything they need masks and PPE. I just do n’t want people to dedicate time and effort to get upset when their good intentions are turned away.

Best practice now is to call a local hospital and speak to someone over nursing and find out if they can use anything and, if so, what. Then you know what they can accept

Jarrod Richards Agreed.

oh! so many experts here! stop pretending to know the future... things can change very fast... and people trying to help i s always a good thing. negative knowitalls are not...imho... i love it when inovative people find simple solutions. and by working together we will find a resin or mix that will be compatible...

Maybe painting a part can reduce the outgassing of toxic gas from the resin?

Rose Stumpwater or they could use they cheaper, safer alternative of a piece of seen together cloth

More cosplay stuff. Yay

... For those saying "hospitals cant use it" desperation in Italy meant they needed to. Wait and see how bad it gets elsewhere, don't rule anything out if deaths start rolling in like in Italy and Spain... The rest of the world cant just make shit like China and the US can (except maybe Germany). dental and bio resins are not too bad. If its getting to the point of risking a 3d printed part or letting them drown in their own mucus, I know I'd be signing the waivers for my grandma,,

I just signed up with formlabs to start printing valves for hospitals, the hospitals must have figured it’s worth the risk.

A lot of nay sayers here. Ignore them. Let me know when you share the STL. I will print some.

https://www.facebook.com/....../1669863786528397/......

I got the STL file on my page !

Everyone keeps talking about how toxic resin and how this will never be approved. I wonder tho, my fillings are made of Composite Resin that required UV lights to cure it.

People didnt realize how bad is the scenario in some parts of the world. In spain emergenci personel is starting to wear trash bags literally becaude the lack of supplies. They are beggin for masks, faceshiels and other equipment.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1240226235902550016

Loads of UV curable biocompatible resins, start around $250 per liter.

https://dental.formlabs.com/....../dental-materials/

Siva-Jack Sernvongsat they are talking about the cheap resins. Lots of good medical grade toxins.

Jason Smith - In place of a hard plastic ventilator valve?

For masks sure - that's what they're doing. I sew and all my sewing groups are full of folks making masks. I've made some myself using the requested fabrics and will be making more today.

My friends who are healthcare workers are reusing the same paper mask over and over and have kissed their kids goodbye not sure if they'll get to hug them again, ever, because they know as a nurse or doctor they will get sick - and if not severely they still have to stay away from their families or put them at risk, and then are going to work to be asked to rinse and reuse a single paper mask for a whole shift.

We're already at desperation levels when it comes to healthcare and if a thing will help - even imperfectly - and not immediately make things worse, they're going with that.

For the people who say the hospital can't use this kind of aid.
The UE yesterday has lift the CopyRights on these products so anyone can produce gloves, mask and so on.

https://ec.europa.eu/....../presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_502

Diego Gonzalez del Rio I think it's likely more of a sanitary issue than a copyright issue. Hospitals don't know how clean your print space is, you may get dust in the print and someone may be allergic. It's not always about law

Please don’t print them in resin. Print them with PLA. Resins releases a quantity of “fumes” that would be pushed inside lungs.

Clifford Schwankner toxic gas at this size? Is minimum ... and on a life and death decision ?‍♂️

I've heard people say "better than dying" regarding using normal resin. Remember COVID-19 is primarily a respiratory issue. If you use these with unsafe resins, there's no guarantee it's going to help get good air to the patient. It may aggravate the i ssue and actually kill them sooner. I'm not a doctor so I don't know. But it's not just a "I'll deal with the consequences" situation. There's no guarantee it will make things better and might actually make it worse.

I love the idea of helping the problem, but please help support the idea that these should only be printed with safe resins, if there are some. Otherwise, print with PLA.

Tyler Tolley my wife and sister in law work in the medical field and people have been bringing them in and they legally can’t use them unless you get copper infused resin/pla, and surprisingly foodsafe resin works aswell but they have been having to dump anything that isn’t made with those because as you said it just makes the situation worse

Jason Willis Sure it is. Guess you believe a tiny piece of plastic is really worth $1000. It's all about the profits my guy.

Matt Stephens you do realize the $11k in the story was misreported and is the cost of the ventilator. The valve is a $6 consumable.

John Driggers Nope but thanks for the info.

Chris Christiansen amazing. What percentage of copper infusion is required?

John Driggers I don’t think it matters exactly it just has to contain copper because it helps with sanitization, and slows the spread of microbes and bacteria but I will find out for sure what percentage it needs.

John Driggers looks like any antimicrobial/antibacterial pla will work due to being infused, they are more expensive than regular but in a time like this worth it to do it right, as for resin printers, Bio safe resin, foodsafe resin, and dental resin all work!

Chris Christiansen ok. Wouldn’t the same apply to PLA? It’s a virus, not a bacteria?

John Driggers yes, although it’s a virus it still makes cleaning it easier and slows the spread/reproduction of it

Tyler Tolley petg over pla. Proven more food safe and bacterial resistances

Evan Boone you are super wrong about this and trolling hard. The masks and ventalator valves are already being made and donated to hospitals everywhere and are "approved". Wake up this is a pandemic not a normal day at work for these people.

Not true. Its happening

Mothy Reynolds see the rest of the conversation

I did Jarrod Richards and you are wrong.

Mothy Reynolds I assume you work in the medical field?

Jarrod Richards I assume you are an internet troll

Mothy Reynolds and there it is. Input from someone who doesn’t have a properly informed perspective. Thank you for your time sir.

I created a group dedicated to the (controversial?) subject of 3D printing for medical purposes, you are free to join it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/healthcare3dprinting/

Hi. Just approved. From medical. Not a doctor, but represent several. The valves split ventilators, so are a last resort anyway.

We need info on what the resin outgasses. For hour long? Are there curves we can see?
How to clean.
Temperature tolerances.

We are trying to evaluate this avenue before it becomes an emergency. If they run out as a supply it may become so. Some places seem to want to try to get these into their back pocket if they can and they are safe “enough” so they can appear if need be. For those who are recognizing, that this is a last resort product, you’re correct. Again, if you are using these, we are extending ventilators in dire straits. <Also, it is not easy to do, as you have to match patients lung capacity, resistance, etc. to do successfully. -Sorry for the edit, I’m adding pertinent info as it’s being relayed. > The choice will be to let a patient die or do this. A semi-poisonous resin will kill a patient way more slowly than no oxygen.

Also please realize we will in-line filter (sim to P100) after split and before patient. The below is a salvage PPE using an in-line filter that is being in US to stopgap local PPE shortage. Also note construction P100s which we are having trouble finding in places due to panic buying and being slow on the uptake to change to non-conventional product.

Man...you changed your mind on the way of the conversation. At least take the effort and change your original post.edit/add "...in case of normal situation, but if it would be a normal situation we would not even talk about it. So I was just a smart.ss posting a general situation fact for a conversation which is clearly not in a normal situation. This is emergency in many cases, so they will accept help at a certain point."

Dont be bloody negative, especially with ppl who want to help in a reasonable way.

Tamas Somogyi haven’t changed my stance and I’m not being negative. Original post is still accurate unless the hospital grants an exception

You guys ever hear the saying "too much of a good thing"?

Resin is toxic. End.

The stl could still be used on a traditional PLA printer with a non toxic filament right?

We all know its toxic. Te Question here is how much and for how long can such a device be used?

We all know cigarettes, and they will kill you; YEAH!
But you can smoke several packs a day and live a couple of decades.

So in the event of scarcity of venturi valves, how long can be them used? If they could be used at all....

In a life and dead scenario, if you can give someone 10 or 20 years of life, even at the risk of toxicity....whould you do so?

Yes, of course. So this post is not in the good group...

Good guy!

Upzzzzz for the effort bro ?

Just something for everyone to print while stuck at home ?‍⚕️

Nice work! How many did you fit on a plate? Is the Mig-29 coming any time soon??? :-)

Amjad Syed currently 2 to a plate is good for the scale,

i tried in 1/144 but you need to support it differently and it barely fits on the plate haha

Also there is already a good fulcrum stl up there!

Nicholas Yun It'd be cool if I could fit maybe 4 on a plate... maybe I'll play with scaling, haven't fired up my Photon in a couple of months. Okay, I'm seeing the Fulcrum and an Su-37! :-)

Fuel tanks!

Why do you have a Nike sign on the right wing?! ?

Arthur White thats my callsign ?

No. The stl format is pretty limited and contains no metadata to define what is support, original mesh etc.

Much like how gcode won't allow you to produce a mesh - its simply a series of move instructions.

Ah well. That makes things... difficult.

Your best bet...probably...is to use meshmixer to poke about with the mesh.

Go to the 3 lines at the top left and save as a project. That should let you reopen it and work on it. Then just slice and save the STL when you need to print.

You can save the model as a project with supports, and then come back and edit that.

+1 for all the above..I try to keep the original pure 'blueprint' in Projects, rework it if I need to then when diced and sliced export it to a 'ready to print' file..try to maintain a sequence / filing system...